“ We need people to save the babies who are drowning, but also people to fix it so that fewer babies are falling in the water.”
As Director of the Division of Race and Equity at the City of Minneapolis, Joy builds infrastructure to advance racial and transgender equity in the city’s policies, programs and practices. She and her team work with elected policy makers, staff, and residents to accomplish these objectives. She also oversees a federally funded grant program to address trauma related to systemic oppression in all its intersectional forms.
In our conversation, Joy reflects on the nature of her work and the personal qualities needed to be a system changer.
What brings you to the work and keeps you there?
A lot of my motivation around the work is deeply personal, deeply tied to my own faith, and my own faith expression in the world, and what it means for me to live out my faith. I fundamentally believe that we are in a world where there are more than enough resources to go around, and to meet all of the needs of the people who are in the world, but that we also wrestle against systems that withhold resources from those who need it in order to benefit the few.
This is how I show up and model my commitment to that vision of abundance in the world. It means working to dismantle the systems of oppression that actively operate and recognizing that my own position is also intricately tied to that of the person next to me. I can't be my very best unless everyone is their very best.
I’m working to create a world that allows for everyone to be their best, so everyone has access to whatever it is that they need to live that life. I feel like that's part of why I'm here, part of the charge that I have as an individual in the world. So that's why I show up every day.
What does success look like? What would be different in Minneapolis?
I'm a very deeply systems person. I view community as more than just the residents that we serve, but also our staff and our elected leaders in the City of Minneapolis. So it's really important to be equipping those individuals with the tools that they need to think critically about the impacts of their decisions on Black, Indigenous, other POC, and Transgender people that we're serving. And I believe that if we're successful in this work, that the residents that we serve locally, and those that are connected to us both in the region and beyond, will benefit from this work.
I see success as seeing racial disparity trends being reversed. It’s also about marginalized communities having the ability to exercise greater agency to inform the ways in which governing systems are operating. So the decision making within City Hall is going to be more collaborative, and those who are most impacted by decisions are going to have a place in shaping those decisions.
What are you most proud of in your time at the City?
There's a lot that I'm excited about. I think ultimately the biggest point of pride that I have -- and I struggle with that word, pride -- is that when I started in this role in September 2015, I was the only person. There was no real vision in the city for this work, to include anybody other than me. And now, here we are, almost four years later, and not only do I have a team of people who are working in this work, but that structure has become normative inside of the city, and expected. And we even have other departments imagining what it would look like for them to also have dedicated staff to do the work.
That to me is a tremendous growth for the city to be in that place, and I believe that a lot of that is informed by the fact that we've been able to demonstrate the relevance and the importance of having staff. Just so few jurisdictions across the nations have a dedicated office with this amount of staff in it. That's exceptional.
What challenges do you face in this work?
Minneapolis shares the same sorts of challenges that any jurisdiction or organization faces when they're trying to be bold in advancing racial equity. There's always going to be intraction and people who are fearful of the change. There's going to be white fragility popping up. There are going to be individuals, even People of Color, who have internalized racism that they're dealing with, and all of those are going to create barriers to progress.
What I think is unique to Minneapolis, and can sometimes be problematic for us, is that we enjoy a significant reputation for being really progressive. I think that fundamentally, it's a well-earned reputation. But at the same time, it can lull people into a sense of complacency when it comes to being bold in our thinking. We have historically rested on that reputation and our belief that because our intentions are good we haven’t pushed as hard historically as we should to ensure our solutions actually reversed disparity trends. Since we are good people doing good work, the outcome is always good. This mindset is changing under our current administration that is pushing for metrics and outcomes tied to racial equity goals. This means thinking critically about race in the decision-making process and being willing to be held accountable, and hold ourselves accountable, to meet those goals.
It also means shifting the culture of the City so that staff who implement policies and execute the support processes do so with full awareness of how matters of bias can show up. It’s about deepening our language around anti-racist work entirely and creating the mechanisms by which we can all be successful in reaching the goals regardless of where we are situated in the enterprise.
Things don’t always land in the way that we want them to, despite all our good intentions. Applying tools like racial equity analysis have not historically been normative for the City. We don't have a good track record, necessarily, of doing that in any sort of enterprise fashion. Which isn’t to say that people don't think about race, or that people don't use racially disaggregated data. But getting us to the point that that's an enterprise value that we exercise all the time, that's the mindset shift. Through our strategic and racial equity planning process we are centering this type of analysis. Our administration is asking for it regularly from staff to support the decision-making process. That form of leadership is paving the way for the internal culture shift we need for long term systems change to happen.
What qualities does a public servant need to overcome these challenges?
Ultimately, I feel as though systems work is not the type of work for people who are looking for either immediate impact or seismic change. Systems work is slow and incremental, and there are lots of fits and starts, and lots of effort goes into moving the dial even the smallest possible amount. Systems change is for those who are committed to working for future generations. It's not going to be for me. I'm not going to eradicate racial inequity in the city of Minneapolis in my lifetime. I'm not going to eradicate transgender inequity in my lifetime.
That's just not possible, and it's not the expectation I should put on myself every single day. Nor is it the expectation that I should put on people that I'm working with. This change, while it's urgent, while the impact of not acting is literally life and death for so many people, it's also still going to be slow.
We have to continue to stick with it while also creating space for people to move at the pace in which they're going to move. I think it's really, really hard to be a systems-oriented person who's focused on future generations and still be able to live in a period of time where you literally see people dying in the streets. It doesn’t mean we don’t charge people with stretching or that we are complacent when fear stops movement, but it does mean we never lose sight that we are all on a journey. We have to find creative ways to come to a shared understanding and set of values upon which we can build a path forward. That takes time and the humility to know that we can’t get to the desired end state simply by moving everyone out of the way who you feel doesn’t believe what you believe. At our base, we are often more alike than we are different in what we value. When we start with those shared values, we can change the world.
We need to have people in our society who do both. We need people to save the babies who are drowning, but also people to fix it so that fewer babies are falling in the water. And attempting to do both is not sustainable. Trying to be the person who is saving babies from drowning -- within this government structure, which doesn't do direct service outside of the rare exception -- is going to be very, very frustrating. Because it's not a role, and there really isn't the space to do that in any long-term sustainable way. But if that's how you're oriented, this is a space for you to be super, super frustrated every single day.
It’s particularly difficult for people who are trying to dismantle these systems, while also experiencing daily the impact of inequitable systems. That's a very, very, very difficult place to stay in, and it can be overwhelming, and it can be traumatizing when you see people who look like you being impacted. So it’s important to have a pretty intense and deliberate practice around self-care. I don't know if this is a sustainable place for Black, Indigenous, or People of Color to really stay in for the long term.
You may have to cycle out. You may have to cycle out to a place of doing just something entirely different. Like walking dogs for a living, whatever it is. Or shifting to direct service, or something to feel like you're doing something that's more tangible for today. But ultimately, being aware of where you are in your season, and what work you can do, is important.
And be honest with yourself. Stop and pause and say, "Is this still the space for me?" Because again, these are not your problems independently to solve, and just because you step away from doing systems-based work doesn't mean that nothing else happens. It doesn't mean that somehow, you've given up. There are many expressions and approaches to how we dismantle systemic oppression and by stepping aside, you are also making room for someone else to step up and bring their perspective to the equation. We all have a responsibility, I feel, collectively, to address these issues, in whatever way we address them. But sometimes it’s my turn to be at bat, and sometimes it’s my time to sit on the bench. And that's really okay.
Last question: what’s your superpower?
I think my superpower is the fact that I’ve led large scale systems change work in a lot of different types of organizations – private, public and non-profit. I’ve managed projects that impact people across continents and those that only impact small departments. This experience allows me to understand a lot of different motivations people bring to challenges. It has also taught me immense patience and just how much I need to rely on other people to make any sort of meaningful change happen. I’m old enough and discerning enough to know what work is my work to get done and what isn’t. I’m past the point in my career where I’m swinging at windmills and I’m able to be more strategic in my approach. I’ve learned the importance of developing the leadership of others because I also know this fight continues on long after me.